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ofalkaed 12 hours ago [-]
Within a few minutes of picking up a guitar my fingers start to stiffen up, I crack them and then all is well, been doing this for 30 odd years now and the joints of my hands are some of the few which don't cause me problems at this point in my life. I never could crack my knuckles before I started playing guitar and if I stop playing for a few weeks, I cease being able to crack my knuckles.
These articles on knuckle cracking never seem to say anything but state, but sort of maybe could be but your aunt is almost certainly wrong unless or maybe in certain exceptions. For the majority of people I think we crack our knuckles for the same reason we often stretch when we get up, it relieves a tension that needs relieving.
arjie 7 hours ago [-]
I do this through the day etc but in my case it feels quite clear that the two are unrelated. The stiffness is in muscles, tendons, and ligaments and feels very similar to that in other parts of my body. In the hand, performing the stretching actions causes cracking. In my ankle etc, it does not but the stretching and twisting has the same effect on the stiffness I experience.
tapland 8 hours ago [-]
I can feel some kind of tension after a short bit of using my hands, and cracking my knuckles relieves it and allows me to continue without any issues. Usually I have to crack them before falling asleep, since the feeling of tension keeps me from sleeping. Doctors never thought this was an issue and I have no joint damage (checked for other reasons).
hasley 7 hours ago [-]
I also crack my fingers in the morning, over the day, and before sleeping. I also feel this "tension".
But I am not sure whether it is a real "tension" or something my brain makes up to force me crack my knuckles which gives some perceived relief. Maybe I am just addicted to this relief.
I haven't seen any research on this urge to crack and the possible tension. Is this a physical tension, some psychologically perceived tension due to an addiction, or something else?
codethief 2 hours ago [-]
I came here to ask this, as well! Where does that tension come from and the relief one feels after cracking? People keep saying it's built-up gas but that doesn't really explain why we feel so much relief after cracking. (Not just when cracking our knuckles but also, or especially after, cracking our back, neck, etc.)
The article provides some hints at least but I wish there'd be more research on this topic:
> For some people, cracking can provide a sense of relief and a temporary increase in joint mobility, because it stretches the joint, taking it through a wider range of motion. One theory even suggests that cracking stimulates nerve endings around the joint, relaxing surrounding muscles while reducing pain and releasing endorphins – but this hasn't been proven.
DANmode 7 hours ago [-]
Gas buildup, is the best theory I’ve read.
hasley 4 hours ago [-]
I am not doubting the theory of the gas getting out of the liquid.
I was just referring to the "urge" to crack my fingers. I thought, maybe this instant relaxation (with additional auditive feedback) results in an addiction which creates or increases my urge to crack.
podocarp 6 hours ago [-]
Is it a theory, I thought it was exactly what causes it. The stretching depressurizes the liquidy thing in the joints and that causes dissolved gases to bubble out of solution in nucleation points. It's not really gas build up, but more like opening a can of coke, the pressure drop causes the equilibrium to shift and brings dissolved gases out of solution. At least that's what I thought it was.
hasley 4 hours ago [-]
But how does this gas or new gas get back into the liquid resulting in new pressure?
scott_w 3 hours ago [-]
My uneducated guess would be that the pressure is the natural state because of the fluid/gas involved, much the same way sediment eventually settles at the bottom of a bottle of orange juice. Over time, the gas will just naturally form inside your joints that way.
2Gkashmiri 7 hours ago [-]
I grew up and around 7-8 I started cracking my neck. It was like an accordian. For years it worked.
Now I get maybe one crack every few weeks but the magic is gone.
Same for my hands. I was "voracious" cracker, now my fingers get 10% of the cracks I used to get.
I still am able to crack my back, lower back by tugging on my belt and that releases a lot of uumpf. For upper back, I lay on my back, put my knuckles below the spine and go down one by one. Satisfying.
I also have a problem. Every time I stand for a long time, do some work standing up, my lower back is like dead. So I get someone to get on my sacro-illiac joint I think and a loud crack and I'm fit as a fiddle. I'm weird
specproc 1 hours ago [-]
The back crack is excellent. If I feel it getting sore, it fixes it every time.
snarfy 8 hours ago [-]
The tension is in the fluid with gas compressed into it. Cracking causes a suction that pops the gas out, and now you have a bubble.
Maybe that bubble is supposed to be there.
podocarp 6 hours ago [-]
No, the bubble is never there. The bubble only appears when you stretch it, and the pop comes from the bubble bursting. Would be weird just having a bubble of gas in your joints.
DANmode 7 hours ago [-]
Ancestors used to walk on knuckles, it hurts or is uncomfortable for some not to crack - maybe it isn’t.
kibwen 7 hours ago [-]
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saidnooneever 11 hours ago [-]
there are 2 type of cracking. from guitar i have same, its ok, some fluid goes out because ur tendons are longer and there is some space. something like that (i am not medical person ofc).
then there is 'forced' cracking, which will be more difficult to do because its actually going to crack things that are un healthy. it destroy some soft crap between the bones.
both are not healthy but first is much less destructive and wont lead to chronic issues as fast/often as the later which much more often has that result later..
the second forced one u rly need to put some pressure or pull them hard etc its not about getting rid of that stiffness u talk about.
i did that for 15 years and my fingers/hands are fine. (stopped playin so that also went away eventually, mostly)
pcblues 14 hours ago [-]
Any muscle, back and joint pain should first be met with mild strengthening, mild weight loss and mild exercise. It's like turning your computer off and on. Mostly the problems go away. Then check for other things :) Keep remembering to relax and move, from your fingers to your wrists and shoulders. And keep trying different set-ups and equipment if you can. There is a pretty magic set-up for most people. 30+ years myself into being on a computer nearly all the time personally and professionally. Back is starting to hurt again. Time to take my own advice again :)
earth-tattoo 8 hours ago [-]
My lower back pain resolved automatically after I lost 15 kgs (100 to 85).
wingworks 42 minutes ago [-]
Same things for me, but I was already "normal" weight, but fixed my lower back pain was... exercising. Back exercises, not just walking. Go to a gym and get a plan made out.
You don't need to become the next hulk. If you sit all day, as you get older you can get away with less and less, at some point you need to start exercising (and not just 1 type, a range), your bones don't just hole up your body on their own, building muscle around them fixes a surprising amount of Aches and pains you get as you age.
Maybe it's just me but I always saw gym people are the crazy bodybuilder people, but in this modern day in age most people need some level of gym (a lot of it you can do at home too with minimal gear).
*Talking to people sedentary lower back pain people.
rapidfl 3 hours ago [-]
I have cracked other joints as well. I have stopped doing the neck and the spine tho - that seems not worth the risk.
I had a particularly annoying joint that I have completely stopped cracking - likely the cause was a functional issue that is resolved due to weight loss.
mythrwy 7 hours ago [-]
I was getting a bit stiff recently and thought it might be old age creeping up.
I started sleeping on the floor for a few nights on a doubled thick blanket for slight padding and after the third night (first two were a little rough) I sprang up like an 18 year old and felt like my posture had been improved all day long.
We spend a lot of time in bed and most beds are too soft and lead to distortions is my current theory. I'm thinking about replacing my mattress with one of those reed mats Japanese sleep on.
12 hours ago [-]
ElijahLynn 20 hours ago [-]
This is good to read about, and nice that it has and research referenced.
It's interesting to know that it's gas collapsing. And nothing to do with the bone rubbing.
And it makes you wonder what chiropractors are actually doing when they're popping your back... It's probably not doing anything to help you with your pain. And it's probably not actually adjusting anything.
PaulDavisThe1st 19 hours ago [-]
I recommend reading up on the actual history of chiropractic ... I've seen articles that seem to make it clear that it was long con right from the start.
I acknowledge that this is not the only view on the history.
chneu 18 hours ago [-]
Its a con that is trying very hard to become legitimate.
Chiros started as a scam, continued as a scam, and are now a widely accepted scam. The legit work they do is often just physical therapy.
Just go to a physical therapist.
AngryData 15 hours ago [-]
A physical therapist costs significantly more, which is why a lot of chiropractors in rural areas with a lot of manual labor are well looked upon. They are mostly just practicing physical therapy without a medical license which could get them in trouble if it wasn't considered chiropractic work. The pure quackery doesn't get them as far because most of their customers are too poor to regularly spend on woowoo crap.
In my area someone's insurance might cover the first 3-4 sessions of physical therapy, but nothing after that despite them needing it for longer. So the physical therapist will at the end of insurance billing send them down the road to do the exact same thing at the chiropractor for significantly cheaper.
In places without a lot of manual labor they are probably mostly just the quackery. Their clients are lots of hypochondriacs and office workers who really just need to get more exercise but are willing to find anyone who says they can make them better without significant effort. Im sure the massages and stretching does feel good though atleast, but im sure a massage parlor would set out some crystals and do a massage for cheaper.
blooalien 12 hours ago [-]
> The pure quackery doesn't get them as far because most of their customers are too poor to regularly spend on woowoo crap.
Yeah, but them very same type of folks (like where I grew up in "rancher territory") who can't (or won't) regularly spend on "woowoo crap" will happily budget a reasonable monthly (or even weekly) fee for a bit of good advice, some stretching exercises and "adjustments", and a bit of basic applied physical therapy techniques that provide a measure of genuine relief. That's how chiropracters in "farm country" make their money.
They basically are as you say "practicing physical therapy" (and some other similar and related services) under a different license (chiropractic). If they didn't provide a valid service in places like that, they'd be outta business downright quick-like, because them small-ish towns, word gets around pretty quick if you done somethin' bad like scammin' a hard-workin' neighbor with "woowoo crap".
malfist 2 hours ago [-]
> If they didn't provide a valid service in places like that, they'd be outta business downright quick-like, because them small-ish towns, word gets around pretty quick if you done somethin' bad like scammin' a hard-workin' neighbor with "woowoo crap".
Because rural areas are immune to scams or quackery? I think you'll find them just as immune as city folk.
arcfour 12 hours ago [-]
> They are mostly just practicing physical therapy without a medical license
Oh, well as long as they're only practicing medicine without a license, I suppose that's okay then...
AngryData 4 hours ago [-]
It is when it is the only medical care these people can afford.
firebot 12 hours ago [-]
My insurance covers physical therapy, chiropractor, and/or massage all in the same category. I get 12 total visits a year, mix n match style.
I don't really understand what people need a physical therapist for... They basically just instructed me on how to do exercises that significantly worsened my pain. Brilliant? And then she had the nerve to say riding my bicycle is a bad idea?! Fuck that stupid bitch I never went back.
My chiropractor was much more pragmatic. He asked if bicycling made my back feel better. Guess what?! It does!!!
While a massage therapist or chiropractor does things I can't do to myself. So PT seems kind of like a waste of time and money.
I suggest Bob and Brad on YouTube. Do it at your own pace and do things that actually feel good and don't hurt!
6 hours ago [-]
somenameforme 15 hours ago [-]
This doesn't really make any sense, because the entire point of chiropracty is pain and function improvement. This is measurable by people. The Wiki page on the topic is loaded with vitriol and agenda, but the study [1] they relied on to try to discredit chiropracty concludes: "When spinal manipulative therapy (SMT) is compared to sham SMT/placebo, it may result in a small improvement in pain and medium improvement in functional status in adults with chronic low back pain. When compared to no treatment, SMT may result in a medium improvement in pain and a large improvement in functional status."
The issue they had is that the data were very noisy due to the SMT being conducted across different populations, with differing frequency, and differing application formats. In any case, if that's the worst our agenda-driven editor could dig up, then I can only conclude that chiropracty is, at the minimum, certainly not a scam.
> This doesn't really make any sense, because the entire point of chiropracty is pain and function improvement.
That's a function of massage which has an large overlap with what chiropractors actually do.
On the other hand, the function of chiropracty is changing the alignment of the spine to solve any and all ailments.
What chiropractors do nowadays isn't really chiropracty any more, it's some combination of PT and massage. It can be effective, I won't deny that but the reason they are doing things to my body is important to me and chiropractors have some odd ideas.
burnt-resistor 18 hours ago [-]
It's a con like osteopathic "medicine". D.O. should be shunned and rejected because it's pretending to be legitimate and/or legitimized.
dghlsakjg 18 hours ago [-]
DOs are sorta weird in the US. They go to real medical school for 4 years like MDs and practice actual licensed medicine at the same level as an MD. They can even call themselves physicians.
Non DO osteopaths are not trained with any sort of scientifically backed curriculum.
toast0 17 hours ago [-]
I have a cousin who is a DO (in the US). It seems like it's basically an out to get effectively an MD with a slightly lower bar for admission.
Once you're in the program, it's basically the same as an MD program, and then you go through residency programs on an equal basis with MDs.
aorloff 16 hours ago [-]
Its such a scam that professional sports teams all hire chiropractors to work on the bodies they invest millions of dollars into each year.
Jtarii 12 hours ago [-]
Athletes are often highly superstitious and ritualistic, (and young and dumb), its not surprising they would engage in something like chiropractic.
Sports science is mostly just guesswork.
aorloff 2 hours ago [-]
I'm not talking about athletes.
I'm talking about the people who own the teams, they invest in chiropractors.
People who are thinking about the ultimate economic benefit of an investment into a human body, not the athletes themselves.
azan_ 16 hours ago [-]
Yes, rich people get scammed too.
close04 12 hours ago [-]
Sports doctors were never immune to misguided treatments. The regular ice baths after an injury have already been thoroughly proven to slow down recovery. You need ice only after the initial trauma, afterwards ice just hinders the healing process. But million dollar bodies were subjected to it for years and still are.
And a lot of treatments are known by the doctor to be fake but are still performed so the player benefits from the placebo effect.
In the sports where the team doctor would routinely administer PEDs to the players under the guise of “vitamins” or whatever, after the practice became harder to pull off some doctors kept administering sugar pills to avoid the nocebo effect. They just follow the ritual that doesn’t harm the player but gives them peace of mind.
senectus1 16 hours ago [-]
none of us is as dumb as all of us...
bena 19 hours ago [-]
“You have a fever because of the ghosts in your bones”
genewitch 4 hours ago [-]
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wahern 19 hours ago [-]
Chiropratic can help with pain, but not for the claimed reasons. Studies show it's as efficacious as massage therapy. I believe the same is true of cupping. Insurers increasingly cover these sorts of therapies, and primary's increasingly prescribe them, because they're cheaper than a real doctor's time, especially a specialist's, and the patient is more likely to feel better than if they were subjected to a long diagnostic gauntlet with an inconclusive end.
selectodude 19 hours ago [-]
If a chiropractor could adjust something by pushing on your bone, imagine what tripping and falling would do.
BenjiWiebe 19 hours ago [-]
Tripping and falling can mess you up for a long time. And I don't mean broken bones.
UncleOxidant 17 hours ago [-]
Just tripping a bit messed up my SI joint pretty bad a few years back. It didn't even seem serious at the time, just a bit of a stumble off of the curb, but the next day I could barely get out of bed and was in pretty serious pain for several days. Couldn't go up stairs and had a tough time getting my pants on. Still acts up sometimes.
danpalmer 18 hours ago [-]
So can a chiropractor!
16 hours ago [-]
bryanrasmussen 18 hours ago [-]
I think that's the joke?
ghosty141 11 hours ago [-]
This can definitely happen, I had a like crooked hip for a few days after I bumped into a table while lifting something. I dont think this could ever result in something good though like chiropractors claim.
iamthejuan 17 hours ago [-]
I have difficulty breathing sometimes but when bones were adjusted on my back, it was an instant relief, breathing like I have never experienced for a very long time that I almost forgot. Effortless and deep.
LeoPanthera 19 hours ago [-]
It's surprising that it's not common knowledge that "Chiropractic" is not medicine, nor a science, and the field is associated with vaccine misinformation and unproven supplements.
Sadly many universities offer degrees with chiropractic being a major part.
burnt-resistor 18 hours ago [-]
Osteopathy makes even bolder claims for similar shit and has been legitimized into the medical community as "equal" to medical doctors.
rsynnott 12 hours ago [-]
Only in the US, really; some other countries have some sort of legitimisation of osteopaths, but the US osteopathic physicians are, as far as I know, unique.
arcfour 12 hours ago [-]
It's not "probably not" doing anything, it's definitely not doing anything, because chiropractic is quack pseudoscience that has been thoroughly debunked and also has a bunch of other bizarre and fantastical elements to it beyond "cracking your back"
ButlerianJihad 18 hours ago [-]
There is a chain of clinics here called "Emergency Chiropractic" and they advertise how they take insurance and get your adverse diagnosis fast, fast, fast.
And their mascot is literally a duck! I think it took me ten years to figure out the quack part here!
firebot 12 hours ago [-]
I've been to wonderful chiropractors and I've been to quacks. The good ones will discuss what's going on and individualize treatment.
The bad ones will kind of just do the same exact routine every time you go there and they'll do the same thing to everyone that goes there -- wham, bam, ty ma'am style -- get you in and out the door as quick as possible! They'll probably pop just about everything they can, which accomplishes not much of anything at all. I guess you'd call that the bruteforce method of chiropracty?
However, a single bad adjustment can painfully linger for weeks.
A good chiropractor for me was Dr. Blake Meyer at DSMCore. He would take a whole half hour and do some targeted deep tissue glute massage and nerve flossing that really helped my sciatica. Then finish up with a few minor adjustments and send me on my way, walking a little taller and straighter and with appreciably less sciatic pain. But don't expect miracles.
I tried a physical therapist near his office but she pushed me too far, too quick and made it worse. So I just stuck with Bob(RIP) and Brad on YouTube and did it at my own pace.
adrianN 12 hours ago [-]
All chiropractors are quacks. The whole thing is based on quackery.
BatFastard 6 hours ago [-]
Many are, but some perform for lack of a better word.. magic.
Went to a Orthopedic surgeon, he said my back pain was the cost of walking on two legs.
Then I went to half a dozen cracking Chiropractors, and the were shit.
Finally found one that practiced DNFT (Directional Non Force Therapy), its a close to magic as I have ever seen, but it works wonders. I can sleep, walk, and sit with no pain. Something I never thought I would do again.
firebot 12 hours ago [-]
Says a duck like you?
> Dr. Blake Meyer is an Iowa native with more than a decade of experience in biomechanics, rehabilitation, and patient-centered care. He earned a bachelor’s degree in Biomedical Engineering from the University of Iowa and his Doctor of Chiropractic degree from Palmer College of Chiropractic.
> During his training, Dr. Meyer worked with the Musculoskeletal Biomechanics and Sports Medicine Research Lab at University of Iowa Health Care and the Sports Injury and Rehabilitation Department at Palmer College. He has also completed advanced coursework in physical rehabilitation at the board certification level.
This guy is the real deal. More often than not he didn't pop a single thing on my body, buddy. He would get deep into my glutes and floss my sciatic nerves though and that's very evident-based work. And I referred plenty of people to him and we all love the guy.
wat10000 7 hours ago [-]
I wonder why such a great guy has a degree in bullshit.
modeless 16 hours ago [-]
This is a bit weird, but I started getting mild wrist pain from computer use in college, and I credit two things with reversing it. One was rock climbing which strengthened my forearms and wrists, and the other was developing a habit of cracking my wrist joints. I stopped rock climbing many years ago but I continue to crack my wrists to this day. The habit causes me to flex and stretch my wrists every so often while I'm working and I really think that has helped prevent the development of repetitive strain injuries from mouse and keyboard use.
bpev 13 hours ago [-]
I feel like wrist pain can have many different causes. I'm a climber and programmer, and I had pretty bad wrist pain for a bit. Went to the physical therapist, and after poking around a bit, she was like "yeah idk if this is actually a wrist issue. I think it might be referred pain from a pinched nerve higher up". Told me to try and sit with better posture, and gave me some tendon glide exercises. Wrist pain went away in like a week or two.
ButlerianJihad 13 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
bpev 12 hours ago [-]
I mean, this was from a physical therapist at Kaiser Permanente, pinched nerves and referred pain are real things, and whatever happened fixed it for me, so idk? My guess is that it sounds like something a chiropractor would say because they tend to over-attribute pain in general to be referred pain from spinal misalignment? But idk much about chiropractic things.
maccard 11 hours ago [-]
No, it really doesn’t.
refactor_master 14 hours ago [-]
I get wrist pain as soon as I use anything taller than Apple’s flat Magic Keyboard and touchpad. I’ve used this combo for like a decade now and never experience fatigue. Once, I bought a fancy mechanical keyboard and I returned it within a few weeks as it immediately caused me wrist pain.
You can scoff at low travel and membranes all you want, but less movement = less fatigue, so I think they’re amazing.
Never thought about the climbing angle, but I’ll chime in and say that after I started climbing I’ve definitely not experienced more fatigue.
alt227 14 hours ago [-]
Get a wrist rest to raise the hight of your wrist to match the keyboard, it does wonders.
mft_ 11 hours ago [-]
Everyone’s anatomy is different: wrist rests give me significant wrist pain and stiffness in minutes. I either need my wrists a touch lower than the keyboard (I’m okay resting on the desk if the keyboard is thin) or I must hold them elevated without resting them at all (if the keyboard thicker) which always makes me feel like an old-fashioned typist :)
sheepolog 7 hours ago [-]
That's interesting! I'm curious to know: is there a bend in your wrist while typing (either with or without the wrist rest)? Also, are your arms parallel to the floor? Also also, do you rest your elbows on anything?
8 hours ago [-]
zdragnar 8 hours ago [-]
I think shoulder height and arm length relative to desk height must play an important role in this.
I went the opposite direction- mechanical keyboard, large trackball- and my pain cleared up. The lack of feedback of the flat keyboard was too maddening to get accustomed to for me.
fouc 8 hours ago [-]
My carpal tunnel syndrome symptoms or RSI basically went away once I started using a macbook as my primary computer. It definitely doesn't hurt when the trackpad is right below my thumbs.
swah 11 hours ago [-]
Yeah, I also love this particular aspect of this keyboard.
nurettin 13 hours ago [-]
I used to get wrist pain from using mouse and keyboard back 20 years ago. I did no exercises. No stretching, no rock climbing, no triathlons, it just slowly subsided and went away. Maybe I just became aware of positioning and strain to such an expert degree that I just instinctively do the correct moves.
Markoff 16 hours ago [-]
I've had serious issues with my wrist in June (after decades of sitting in front of computer for most of the worktime), it hurt when bent or when using it for almost any load.
I tried painkiller cream (don't think it helped), wrist brace (pretty much impossible to use mouse with it), wrist exercises (bending/stretching arm) didn't help.
I switched from traditional mouse (HP 255 dual wireless) to my wife's Logitech Lift Vertical (she didn't use and bought based on my recommendation anyway, so replaced with my HP) and the pain/issues were gone in ~2 weeks, not sure if it was thanks to the vertical mouse or if it would gone by itself, but just to be safe I keep using vertical mouse. Later I went to preventive check with my kid to their pediatrician, amusingly noticed he is using exactly same mouse.
Btw. how do you crack your wrist (you mean sudden movement to left/right/up/down)? I crack finger joints, but would never think of cracking the wrist.
zdragnar 8 hours ago [-]
> Btw. how do you crack your wrist (you mean sudden movement to left/right/up/down)
Apply a bit of tension to your wrist by closing your fist and squeezing gently as if you were gripping something in your hand, then rotate your hand in a bit. Guaranteed pop for me if I haven't done it in a bit.
The motion follows the wrist's normal movement, which is different to how I crack my fingers- those need to be twisted perpendicular to the normal after curling slightly.
No sudden movement required at all.
kstrauser 14 hours ago [-]
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mpalczewski 6 hours ago [-]
Some kids cracked their knuckles. It annoyed some older adults, and instead of telling them to stop they made up some bullshit reason. Classic non assertive behavior. The kids, being kids, believed them. They continued believing them into adulthood. Thus, it became a myth that was passed down.
NotAstroturfin 5 hours ago [-]
unsure why we're forgetting some kids do things even more when told it's annoying.
mpalczewski 1 hours ago [-]
Leverage, consequences and assertiveness are far better skills to learn when dealing with people including children rather than lies, shame and guilt.
ShinyLeftPad 3 hours ago [-]
Because kids never had monopoly on violence in this relationship, their parents did
JoelMcCracken 6 hours ago [-]
So, I injured my left index finger to the point of tendon interruption. It was approx 2018. I was fortunate enough to have surgery that repaired it to near 100% extension.
So, I clearly have no synovial fluid at that joint. The tendons were in it, and so by necessity it was also violated.
I just popped that knuckles, and it sounds exactly like the others. Anyone have any ideas?
kingkawn 6 hours ago [-]
i attended a prestigious US medical school, everyone there was as in the dark as everyone here
Anon84 2 hours ago [-]
What about wrists, knees, etc? My joints all “pop” easily
bsenftner 11 hours ago [-]
I'm in my 60's, and I crack my knuckles dozens if not hundreds of times a day. I started very young, and I do every joint on both hands, every finger joint all the way up to the wrist. This is my hands while I deep think, and I think a lot. I'll do one hand, then the other, and go back to the first hand and repeat.
Due to this habit, I have researched the cause of the crack, and this article is absolutely nothing new whatsoever. The same information I've been reading for 50 years, since I was first "ordered" to stop.
For the record: zero issues. Zero ramifications beyond "stop that!" verbalized endlessly through out my life.
"No."
t-3 10 hours ago [-]
So, I can crack the 2nd and 3rd joints of my fingers just by flexing them. My thumbs don't crack, but I can push the first joint through the range of motion until it locks and pushes the knuckle out the palm side. I can also push my shoulders out of their sockets, getting about another 2 inches of reach. Are my fingers and shoulders just strangely double jointed or is this something different?
Donald L. Unger got an Ig-nobel prize for cracking the knuckles on only one hand for 60 years. n=1 but evidence over a very long time
thisisauserid 9 hours ago [-]
My knuckles no longer crack when I'm in ketosis. I assume it's inflammation related but I've never heard anyone else mention this though.
LorenPechtel 1 hours ago [-]
I keep reading this same concept and I keep questioning whether they have the whole story.
I'm definitely in the group where cracking gives temporarily increased mobility, but it's more than that. A joint which is bothering me will most likely feel better if cracked and this can be the difference between very painful to walk, then my knee cracked, instantly the pain was gone.
And usually, a joint which is actively being used will not crack--but if my knees are complaining about a downhill stretch they will feel a lot better if I can crack them.
Also, I can sometimes feel a difference in how a joint moves. It just feels smoother when cracked. I don't understand it but I've wondered if it was somehow tiny bubbles (think cavitation) that don't form if the gas was removed by a crack.
port11 4 hours ago [-]
Should the title be “knuckle cracking is mostly benign” because journalism shouldn’t bury the lead? More at ten.
In other news, media outlets continue to struggle with readership, should they stop debasing the profession?
amelius 12 hours ago [-]
How often can this cracking be done at a time? Does the gas escape? Does it need time to form? And why can some people do it and others not?
Hendrikto 9 hours ago [-]
There is definitely a cool down between being able to crack joints. But it is very subjective, and also dependent on your posture, etc.
10 hours ago [-]
analog31 20 hours ago [-]
Not in my house. It's annoying.
tapland 8 hours ago [-]
Being in discomfort because my hands feel stiff and under tension is also annoying. It's not like I'm doing it for fun?
Are people actually doing this as a fun thing because there's nothing better to do?
PeterHolzwarth 16 hours ago [-]
Sorry to see the down votes you are getting. I am an inveterate knuckle-cracker, but I very much understand that a subset of people find it unpleasant and irritating to hear.
stinos 8 hours ago [-]
I know right. Even makes me feel like the person doing it doesn't respect my personal space by making a sound whereas they could also just be quiet. Qualifies as misphonia probably; I feel like the strength of my reaction is unwarranted by something others seem to barely register or at least simply ignore.
anigbrowl 20 hours ago [-]
I have bad news for you about what happens your joints as you get older
analog31 18 hours ago [-]
I am older. ;-)
11 hours ago [-]
codetiger 18 hours ago [-]
Another question, has anyone noticed cracking knuckles being contagious like yarning?
I often crack my knuckles and quite often see others noticing and doing it themselves.
eth0up 19 hours ago [-]
Bruce Lee cracked his knuckles a lot, and he died in his 30s. He was in great shape too.
But I think it's mostly just escaping gases.
Edit: ^ is my way of asking why this is on HN, which I never do, cause then someone could ask the same about me.
not_a_bot_4sho 18 hours ago [-]
Yup. Bruce Lee drank water. He died. Anyone who drinks water will eventually die. It's a fact.
toast0 17 hours ago [-]
You know, water is basically made up of rocket fuel. And they put it in our kids' schools.
lkjdsklf 6 hours ago [-]
Who wouldn’t want their kid to be an astronaut
38 minutes ago [-]
lwde 14 hours ago [-]
My grandpa (he was 10 when he was liberated from the Nazis by the US and remaining French troops) told me that a French general would always crack his wrists when someone didn't hurry up. Sometimes with drastic consequences. That is my memory of his story about it, whenever I hear that..
10 hours ago [-]
throwaway314155 11 hours ago [-]
Over my dead body.
firebot 12 hours ago [-]
Highly agree with the article. If you don't have neck issues, don't pop that shit. Especially by twisting. Pulling sideways left or right, you're probably fine. Palm to chin and the other hand twisting the neck? Risky!
ButlerianJihad 10 hours ago [-]
Cracking one's knuckles has been a thing that men do, that is: only a minority of women would be engaging in this, but men would pick it up in groups and it would become a custom. And of course, boys at a younger age would emulate the elder men, and so you had boys cracking their knuckles, and doing it at home, in front of their sisters and their mothers, and doing it in school in front of their teachers. And it is a blue-collar activity; something considered uncouth for the genteel knowledge-worker to do, except if you're acting in solidarity with the manual laborer, and you crack your knuckles as you sit down at the keyboard to type.
So the cracking of knuckles annoys people who don't do it, and it annoys women, and it annoys people in authority over young boys. So you want them to stop, and you want to regulate men's bodies and control what we do with our bodies. But you cannot tell us all the time "because I said so" or God forbid, "because it annoys me", because that can eventually achieve the opposite result.
So the medical myth of developing arthrosis and hurting your bones and damaging your joints, those were "old wives' tales" and "white lies" that were told in order to scare boys into stopping the activity. And perhaps even to scare husbands and employees into stopping. They tell men to stop spitting on the floor, to stop picking their nails with a pocket knife, and usually a medical excuse arises, because this is a higher authority that will terminate any individual choice or discretion in the way we treat our bodies.
19 hours ago [-]
abstractspoon 19 hours ago [-]
Betteridge says?
dgritsko 20 hours ago [-]
TL,DR: No, unless you're doing it so hard that you're straining your joints. But don't crack your neck.
ranger_danger 20 hours ago [-]
> don't crack your neck
The article makes a point to mention specifically that excessive/forceful neck cracking can be dangerous, but then switches to just "Cracking your own neck is not recommended"... but to me it sounds like they're referring more to the forceful kind, such as the manipulations on youtube they reference.
I suppose it's like asking people to stop using q-tips... they're probably not going to, and the amount of people accidentally injured from either seems to be quite low.
s1artibartfast 19 hours ago [-]
Yeah, and with the q-tips, it seems trival to do it safely. For some reason, be aware or careful always gets compressed to avoidance
lokar 19 hours ago [-]
YouTube has some pretty awful videos of ear canals full of cotton fibers. Touching the eardrum is not the only risk.
genewitch 4 hours ago [-]
i've been cleaning the insides of my ears since before my mom said "nothing smaller than your elbow in your ears" and "nothing smaller than a fencepost;" and my PCP looks in my ears 4+ times a year and has never said anything - either way, do or don't or gross or nice.
AngryData 15 hours ago [-]
I mean it is pretty easy to find all sorts of people misusing or poorly using common hygiene products. Everyone I know uses q-tip in their ears and none have ever had a problem with it. To me it would be like not using toilet paper because some people aren't smart enough to not scour their ass raw.
sublinear 19 hours ago [-]
And you think YouTube represents the average user of q-tips?
Even when YouTube has videos uploaded by doctors having to put up with this kind of stupidity, it doesn't change the fact that hardly anyone does that. The vast majority of stuff uploaded to YouTube isn't even that. It's losers trying to get views.
alt227 14 hours ago [-]
There is never any reason to put q-tips in your ear.
Ear drops are infinitely better.
georgemcbay 18 hours ago [-]
> For some reason, be aware or careful always gets compressed to avoidance
The reason is legal liability, generally.
If you sell Q-Tips and tell people to be careful when sticking them in their ears you're likely to be held legally liable when someone isn't careful because there will be infinite wiggle room for them to claim you didn't specify the safe use clearly enough.
If you sell Q-Tips and tell people not to put them in their ear (even though you know that's why most people are buying them) then when someone sues you for messing up their ear you can tap the words on the box and say "well, we told you not to do that".
These articles on knuckle cracking never seem to say anything but state, but sort of maybe could be but your aunt is almost certainly wrong unless or maybe in certain exceptions. For the majority of people I think we crack our knuckles for the same reason we often stretch when we get up, it relieves a tension that needs relieving.
But I am not sure whether it is a real "tension" or something my brain makes up to force me crack my knuckles which gives some perceived relief. Maybe I am just addicted to this relief.
I haven't seen any research on this urge to crack and the possible tension. Is this a physical tension, some psychologically perceived tension due to an addiction, or something else?
The article provides some hints at least but I wish there'd be more research on this topic:
> For some people, cracking can provide a sense of relief and a temporary increase in joint mobility, because it stretches the joint, taking it through a wider range of motion. One theory even suggests that cracking stimulates nerve endings around the joint, relaxing surrounding muscles while reducing pain and releasing endorphins – but this hasn't been proven.
I was just referring to the "urge" to crack my fingers. I thought, maybe this instant relaxation (with additional auditive feedback) results in an addiction which creates or increases my urge to crack.
Now I get maybe one crack every few weeks but the magic is gone.
Same for my hands. I was "voracious" cracker, now my fingers get 10% of the cracks I used to get.
I still am able to crack my back, lower back by tugging on my belt and that releases a lot of uumpf. For upper back, I lay on my back, put my knuckles below the spine and go down one by one. Satisfying.
I also have a problem. Every time I stand for a long time, do some work standing up, my lower back is like dead. So I get someone to get on my sacro-illiac joint I think and a loud crack and I'm fit as a fiddle. I'm weird
Maybe that bubble is supposed to be there.
then there is 'forced' cracking, which will be more difficult to do because its actually going to crack things that are un healthy. it destroy some soft crap between the bones.
both are not healthy but first is much less destructive and wont lead to chronic issues as fast/often as the later which much more often has that result later..
the second forced one u rly need to put some pressure or pull them hard etc its not about getting rid of that stiffness u talk about.
i did that for 15 years and my fingers/hands are fine. (stopped playin so that also went away eventually, mostly)
You don't need to become the next hulk. If you sit all day, as you get older you can get away with less and less, at some point you need to start exercising (and not just 1 type, a range), your bones don't just hole up your body on their own, building muscle around them fixes a surprising amount of Aches and pains you get as you age.
Maybe it's just me but I always saw gym people are the crazy bodybuilder people, but in this modern day in age most people need some level of gym (a lot of it you can do at home too with minimal gear).
*Talking to people sedentary lower back pain people.
I had a particularly annoying joint that I have completely stopped cracking - likely the cause was a functional issue that is resolved due to weight loss.
I started sleeping on the floor for a few nights on a doubled thick blanket for slight padding and after the third night (first two were a little rough) I sprang up like an 18 year old and felt like my posture had been improved all day long.
We spend a lot of time in bed and most beds are too soft and lead to distortions is my current theory. I'm thinking about replacing my mattress with one of those reed mats Japanese sleep on.
It's interesting to know that it's gas collapsing. And nothing to do with the bone rubbing.
And it makes you wonder what chiropractors are actually doing when they're popping your back... It's probably not doing anything to help you with your pain. And it's probably not actually adjusting anything.
I acknowledge that this is not the only view on the history.
Chiros started as a scam, continued as a scam, and are now a widely accepted scam. The legit work they do is often just physical therapy.
Just go to a physical therapist.
In my area someone's insurance might cover the first 3-4 sessions of physical therapy, but nothing after that despite them needing it for longer. So the physical therapist will at the end of insurance billing send them down the road to do the exact same thing at the chiropractor for significantly cheaper.
In places without a lot of manual labor they are probably mostly just the quackery. Their clients are lots of hypochondriacs and office workers who really just need to get more exercise but are willing to find anyone who says they can make them better without significant effort. Im sure the massages and stretching does feel good though atleast, but im sure a massage parlor would set out some crystals and do a massage for cheaper.
Yeah, but them very same type of folks (like where I grew up in "rancher territory") who can't (or won't) regularly spend on "woowoo crap" will happily budget a reasonable monthly (or even weekly) fee for a bit of good advice, some stretching exercises and "adjustments", and a bit of basic applied physical therapy techniques that provide a measure of genuine relief. That's how chiropracters in "farm country" make their money.
They basically are as you say "practicing physical therapy" (and some other similar and related services) under a different license (chiropractic). If they didn't provide a valid service in places like that, they'd be outta business downright quick-like, because them small-ish towns, word gets around pretty quick if you done somethin' bad like scammin' a hard-workin' neighbor with "woowoo crap".
Because rural areas are immune to scams or quackery? I think you'll find them just as immune as city folk.
Oh, well as long as they're only practicing medicine without a license, I suppose that's okay then...
I don't really understand what people need a physical therapist for... They basically just instructed me on how to do exercises that significantly worsened my pain. Brilliant? And then she had the nerve to say riding my bicycle is a bad idea?! Fuck that stupid bitch I never went back.
My chiropractor was much more pragmatic. He asked if bicycling made my back feel better. Guess what?! It does!!!
While a massage therapist or chiropractor does things I can't do to myself. So PT seems kind of like a waste of time and money.
I suggest Bob and Brad on YouTube. Do it at your own pace and do things that actually feel good and don't hurt!
The issue they had is that the data were very noisy due to the SMT being conducted across different populations, with differing frequency, and differing application formats. In any case, if that's the worst our agenda-driven editor could dig up, then I can only conclude that chiropracty is, at the minimum, certainly not a scam.
[1] - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/41494147/
That's a function of massage which has an large overlap with what chiropractors actually do.
On the other hand, the function of chiropracty is changing the alignment of the spine to solve any and all ailments.
What chiropractors do nowadays isn't really chiropracty any more, it's some combination of PT and massage. It can be effective, I won't deny that but the reason they are doing things to my body is important to me and chiropractors have some odd ideas.
Non DO osteopaths are not trained with any sort of scientifically backed curriculum.
Once you're in the program, it's basically the same as an MD program, and then you go through residency programs on an equal basis with MDs.
Sports science is mostly just guesswork.
I'm talking about the people who own the teams, they invest in chiropractors.
People who are thinking about the ultimate economic benefit of an investment into a human body, not the athletes themselves.
And a lot of treatments are known by the doctor to be fake but are still performed so the player benefits from the placebo effect.
In the sports where the team doctor would routinely administer PEDs to the players under the guise of “vitamins” or whatever, after the practice became harder to pull off some doctors kept administering sugar pills to avoid the nocebo effect. They just follow the ritual that doesn’t harm the player but gives them peace of mind.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiropractic
https://youtu.be/kOzwC5j7UkA?si=sHdHJzzEdn-E2a_N
And their mascot is literally a duck! I think it took me ten years to figure out the quack part here!
The bad ones will kind of just do the same exact routine every time you go there and they'll do the same thing to everyone that goes there -- wham, bam, ty ma'am style -- get you in and out the door as quick as possible! They'll probably pop just about everything they can, which accomplishes not much of anything at all. I guess you'd call that the bruteforce method of chiropracty?
However, a single bad adjustment can painfully linger for weeks.
A good chiropractor for me was Dr. Blake Meyer at DSMCore. He would take a whole half hour and do some targeted deep tissue glute massage and nerve flossing that really helped my sciatica. Then finish up with a few minor adjustments and send me on my way, walking a little taller and straighter and with appreciably less sciatic pain. But don't expect miracles.
I tried a physical therapist near his office but she pushed me too far, too quick and made it worse. So I just stuck with Bob(RIP) and Brad on YouTube and did it at my own pace.
Went to a Orthopedic surgeon, he said my back pain was the cost of walking on two legs.
Then I went to half a dozen cracking Chiropractors, and the were shit.
Finally found one that practiced DNFT (Directional Non Force Therapy), its a close to magic as I have ever seen, but it works wonders. I can sleep, walk, and sit with no pain. Something I never thought I would do again.
> Dr. Blake Meyer is an Iowa native with more than a decade of experience in biomechanics, rehabilitation, and patient-centered care. He earned a bachelor’s degree in Biomedical Engineering from the University of Iowa and his Doctor of Chiropractic degree from Palmer College of Chiropractic.
> During his training, Dr. Meyer worked with the Musculoskeletal Biomechanics and Sports Medicine Research Lab at University of Iowa Health Care and the Sports Injury and Rehabilitation Department at Palmer College. He has also completed advanced coursework in physical rehabilitation at the board certification level.
This guy is the real deal. More often than not he didn't pop a single thing on my body, buddy. He would get deep into my glutes and floss my sciatic nerves though and that's very evident-based work. And I referred plenty of people to him and we all love the guy.
You can scoff at low travel and membranes all you want, but less movement = less fatigue, so I think they’re amazing.
Never thought about the climbing angle, but I’ll chime in and say that after I started climbing I’ve definitely not experienced more fatigue.
I went the opposite direction- mechanical keyboard, large trackball- and my pain cleared up. The lack of feedback of the flat keyboard was too maddening to get accustomed to for me.
I tried painkiller cream (don't think it helped), wrist brace (pretty much impossible to use mouse with it), wrist exercises (bending/stretching arm) didn't help.
I switched from traditional mouse (HP 255 dual wireless) to my wife's Logitech Lift Vertical (she didn't use and bought based on my recommendation anyway, so replaced with my HP) and the pain/issues were gone in ~2 weeks, not sure if it was thanks to the vertical mouse or if it would gone by itself, but just to be safe I keep using vertical mouse. Later I went to preventive check with my kid to their pediatrician, amusingly noticed he is using exactly same mouse.
Btw. how do you crack your wrist (you mean sudden movement to left/right/up/down)? I crack finger joints, but would never think of cracking the wrist.
Apply a bit of tension to your wrist by closing your fist and squeezing gently as if you were gripping something in your hand, then rotate your hand in a bit. Guaranteed pop for me if I haven't done it in a bit.
The motion follows the wrist's normal movement, which is different to how I crack my fingers- those need to be twisted perpendicular to the normal after curling slightly.
No sudden movement required at all.
So, I clearly have no synovial fluid at that joint. The tendons were in it, and so by necessity it was also violated.
I just popped that knuckles, and it sounds exactly like the others. Anyone have any ideas?
Due to this habit, I have researched the cause of the crack, and this article is absolutely nothing new whatsoever. The same information I've been reading for 50 years, since I was first "ordered" to stop.
For the record: zero issues. Zero ramifications beyond "stop that!" verbalized endlessly through out my life.
"No."
I'm definitely in the group where cracking gives temporarily increased mobility, but it's more than that. A joint which is bothering me will most likely feel better if cracked and this can be the difference between very painful to walk, then my knee cracked, instantly the pain was gone.
And usually, a joint which is actively being used will not crack--but if my knees are complaining about a downhill stretch they will feel a lot better if I can crack them.
Also, I can sometimes feel a difference in how a joint moves. It just feels smoother when cracked. I don't understand it but I've wondered if it was somehow tiny bubbles (think cavitation) that don't form if the gas was removed by a crack.
In other news, media outlets continue to struggle with readership, should they stop debasing the profession?
Are people actually doing this as a fun thing because there's nothing better to do?
But I think it's mostly just escaping gases.
Edit: ^ is my way of asking why this is on HN, which I never do, cause then someone could ask the same about me.
So the cracking of knuckles annoys people who don't do it, and it annoys women, and it annoys people in authority over young boys. So you want them to stop, and you want to regulate men's bodies and control what we do with our bodies. But you cannot tell us all the time "because I said so" or God forbid, "because it annoys me", because that can eventually achieve the opposite result.
So the medical myth of developing arthrosis and hurting your bones and damaging your joints, those were "old wives' tales" and "white lies" that were told in order to scare boys into stopping the activity. And perhaps even to scare husbands and employees into stopping. They tell men to stop spitting on the floor, to stop picking their nails with a pocket knife, and usually a medical excuse arises, because this is a higher authority that will terminate any individual choice or discretion in the way we treat our bodies.
The article makes a point to mention specifically that excessive/forceful neck cracking can be dangerous, but then switches to just "Cracking your own neck is not recommended"... but to me it sounds like they're referring more to the forceful kind, such as the manipulations on youtube they reference.
I suppose it's like asking people to stop using q-tips... they're probably not going to, and the amount of people accidentally injured from either seems to be quite low.
Even when YouTube has videos uploaded by doctors having to put up with this kind of stupidity, it doesn't change the fact that hardly anyone does that. The vast majority of stuff uploaded to YouTube isn't even that. It's losers trying to get views.
The reason is legal liability, generally.
If you sell Q-Tips and tell people to be careful when sticking them in their ears you're likely to be held legally liable when someone isn't careful because there will be infinite wiggle room for them to claim you didn't specify the safe use clearly enough.
If you sell Q-Tips and tell people not to put them in their ear (even though you know that's why most people are buying them) then when someone sues you for messing up their ear you can tap the words on the box and say "well, we told you not to do that".